In your face Demons Souls!

Demons Souls

So, not sure if anyone has played this exceptional, and at times borderline frustrating action RPG for the PS3?

Demons Souls is a hack and slash RPG, in which the player is free to choose his painful death-... I mean, the level he wants to play in any order he wishes. All of the levels are very open and none-linear, and are bound to get you killed in many nasty ways. This game is HARD, it's very unforgiving, on purpose! The game even has an online feature that lets you see hints left by other players, or see the ways in which they died. This allows players to warn other players of deadly traps or foes that lie ahead. But if you die, you have to start all the way from the start of the level. Trust me, that will happen a lot. The second boss I encountered killed me in one hit (see picture below), and also the next time I tried to fight him... and the time after that, and the time after that...... ughhhh.... Most of the time I hardly made it to the boss without being fried by an angry dragon, ripped apart by underground wolves, or beaten to a pulp by the large mob waiting patiently for me at the other end of the castle wall.

This game seems to take a cruel enjoyment out of seeing players suffer.

Every time I kept being send back to the start of level 1, and I was beginning to wonder if all this was really worth the effort. But here's the trick with Demons Souls: It doesn't really get any easier, but you do slowly get better at it. You learn to memorize all the unfair traps and pitfalls, all the movements of the enemies. And even common enemies end up draining almost all your health with every encounter... until you learn how to deal with them.

This evening I finally managed to kill my second boss, and the third, and the fourth. So, in your face Demons Souls! You are not impossible, and I shall defeat you! Three bosses today, but tomorrow I'll end them all!

Now here's what Yahtzee at Zero Punctuation thought of this lovely game



This bugger took me forever, until tonight|||Interesting. The way you describe it, it reminds me of the classic arcade games like Space Ace: Memory is more important than skill.

I'm a big fan of watching speed runs (mock away!), so it sounds like this will be a fun one to watch.|||Oh yes, this game is very suitable speedrun material. Especially because of the many classes, all which play very differently (From the top of my head: Soldier, Knight, Temple Knight, Thief, Royalty, Hunter, Priest, Magician, Wanderer), and because it has a fall damage system. But here's the trick, you can reduce fall damage with items and attribute points. So you can spec your character to be focussed purely on speedrunning.

In fact, often it seems as if parts of the game were made with speedrunning in mind. In this game it is okay to skip enemies and dash past them. Last night I ended up at a thin cliff road with all these giant flying manta rays shooting stuff at me, and super strong enemies with insta-death swords. So after multiple deaths I figured, screw this; I just dash/rolled past the bastards, and came face to face with the hardest enemy in the level.... so I dashed past him as well, and ended up at the boss. Hooyaaah!

Much like the classic Contra, it's all about memory, but also about skill. You won't get very far by just level grinding. You have to learn the moves of the enemies, or make sure you are properly equiped to deal with them. Some enemies require magic or different weapons to deal with. And for some you really need a better shield.

The player can't jump, but he can dash, backstep, dodge roll, block, parry, attack and do a heavy attack. Keep in mind that a lot of the enemies can do the same. The game also has tons of weapons, each which require different tactics: Shortbows, longbows, crossbows, short swords, long swords, halbards and spears, axes, hammers, mail breakers and daggers. Throwing daggers, torches, explosives and also several magic spells. Fighting a foe with a sword is quite different from fighting a foe with a spear and shield. Often you'll run across a common enemy, and he'll just parry your attack and stick his sword through your gut. It happens all the time. Don't underestimate a single opponent, learn them inside out.

And because there's no set order in which to do the levels, and the levels themselves have various alternate roads, there is plenty of speedrunning opportunity. There are spots to cut corners all over the place, spots where you can drop yourself to lower levels. Players could spend ages trying to perfect a speedrun on this game, because it is perfect for it.

EDIT: And another 4 bosses down for the count, and also 2 arch demons. I'm starting to get the hang of this.|||Shameless bump.

Got this game two days ago. I took me 5 hours to beat my first boss. Of course, two of those were spent figuring out that the game is absolutely insane to start with a barbarian ("Ooh, best stats but bad starting equip, no worries, I'll just get some new equip real quick! *dies repeatedly*"), and another one was spent playing a magician who couldn't use his magic very often because it doesn't regenerate. Then I rolled a Royalty class, which comes with a ring that gives you MP regen. Well, that certainly makes the game a lot easier, now that I can one-shot most normal enemies from across the room and shoot bosses (which, so far, have all been weakest to magic) while dodging their long-range attacks.

Seriously, how the hell do melee-only players beat some of these boss battles? They don't seem possible. This game strongly favors a ranged or balanced strategy, and even more strongly favors magic. Anyway, I'm having fun; after having the game grind your face in the dust for hours, it really feels good to beat it....only to repeat the process 10 steps down the hall.|||I rented it and played some of it. Didn't like it that much. Prefer Monster Hunter for my ridiculously hard action games.|||Yeah, I've spammed the heck out of our games thread with my overt love of this game. The more you play it, the better you get. Then you start to realize it isn't as difficult as you thought. - A couple months ago, I made a new character and did the entire first cycle without a death. Online. /smug

That's another key point. If you really want the full experience, then you must play the game online / logged in, and in body-mode so you can be invaded by Black Phantoms (i.e. me) at any time. Playing offline / Soul form really robs you of that insane exhilaration you get from knowing there's another player in your game, hunting you.

With a bow, you can cheese a number of the bosses. But this, too, is just ruining the game for yourself. The 3-2 boss in particular seemed completely impossible the first time I tried it. But beating it without the bow/gate exploit really made it memorable when I did.

Random tips and things.

-- For optimal stats / level - Royal and T.Knight are the best bets. Others waste stats in unimportant areas really. Still isn't a big deal unless you want to do specific-level pvp.

- Any kind of MP or HP regen item/affect makes you stick out like a sore thumb for opposing players. The Second Chance spell too. This is how I get most of my kills.

- 4-1 is popular for invasions, but most of these in the court yard will just be folks farming the colorless demon soul.

- Heavy armor is a bad idea. The fast roll is the most important defense in the game. When your equip weight is too high, you lose that. It also drains your stamina faster which really hurts.

- On the flip side, INVADE others! Stalking people and doing hit-n-runs in 2-2 and 1-3 has been the highlight of this console generation for me. There's nothing like going up against 3 to 1 odds, succeeding via clever play, and then getting hate mail after.

- Pick a combat stat based on the weapon you want to use, and focus on it. Raising everything pretty much bones you unless grind enough to overlevel. Keep VIT boosted for health, and END just enough for gear / fast roll.|||This is actually the game of my choice at this moment. It a great game to play and the atmosphere in the worlds is wonderful and varying. The combat is quite good, you can die in a single hit if you don't care but, like you said, if you get a good feel for positioning, the enemies weaknesses you are in fact able to beat the game. You need to fight smart, not just rush in and start chopping away.

There are some weaknesses of the game though. Balance is not so much as an issue, so there are clearly more powerful weapons than others. There are build tactics that would be marked in GW as exploits. In demon's souls however, there is no such thing as exploits, its simply you live or die :P

I'm currently on my first play through of the game, defeated four of five worlds (so yeah it is possible ;-)) .|||Quote:








Seriously, how the hell do melee-only players beat some of these boss battles? They don't seem possible. This game strongly favors a ranged or balanced strategy, and even more strongly favors magic.




I started with a Knight class, and that to me seemed the most playable of all the classes. Melee-only characters work just fine for me. But the game also seems to put a high value on the proper use of shields. But in the end it's simply a matter of finding a class that suits your play style. I'm currently on my third play through with the same character.

I'm playing a Knight with medium armor, medium shield and a crescent blade. This allows me to be flexible enough to do dodge rolls, and I can block against most heavy attacks. I just have to make sure I avoid direct hits on my shield from heavy two-handed weapons. Bosses such as Man-eater and Flame Lurker knock away almost all my stamina if they hit my shield, but atleast I can prevent most of the damage from coming through. The advantage of the Knight, is that she starts with the best armor and stats. The crescent blade occasionally causes bleeding on foes, and the slashing allows it to hit multiple foes. The only down side is that it doesn't deal magical damage (so I keep an extra holy longsword as a backup), and it tends to mostly hit walls in tight corridors. I've also placed some points in magic, allowing me to do heavy damage with spells such as Firestorm, although this is usually just a one cast. It drains almost all the little magic I got (but is highly effective against Man-eater).

Playing a melee class in Demons Souls can be daunting at first, but it's actually my preferred combat style. Here's how it works. When ever you engage enemies, try to only aggro one at a time. Stay in medium range of foes (close enough to lash out at them, after they do a combo, but far enough to not get hit). Circle strafe constantly. When enemies do a heavy attack, move away from them and to the side. Try to not waste all your stamina by having a heavy attack land on your shield. Keep your shield up at all times. When walking through levels, keep your shield raised. Only drop it to recover stamina. Do not button-bash! Hammering your attacks instantly wastes all your stamina, and you need some to block against attacks as well. Study the attack patterns of your foes, learn to recognise which attacks allow for an opening, and when a combo is over. The end of a combo, or right after a heavy attack, is the moment for your attack. If you manage to flank an enemy, and he is unable to raise his shield, a long string of attacks might be beneficial (save your button-bashing for the right moment). Using your bow to lure enemies to a better area to fight them in, is okay! Don't use your heavy attack unless your enemy is really stupid and slow. Don't bother with parry attacks, they suck. Don't heal during combat, that is the number one reason players die in Demons Souls.

Regarding boss strategies with a melee character:



Spoiler




Adjudicator - Works fine with a melee class, but don't bother blocking anything. Roll to avoid his attacks, and strike him in his left knee a few times till he falls over (you can target the knee). Then chop his head when he is down. The Second Chance spell comes in handy here incase your timing with one of the rolls sucks. One failed roll usually means you're dead.

Armor Spider - Hide behind his front legs to recover health and stamina. When attacking, wait till you are free of webbing and get in front of him in medium range. Tempt him into swiping at you, but roll back when he does. Keep your shield up incase he hits you anyway. Don't get too close, and wait for him to smack into the ground, then run towards him and get in a few good hits. When he prepares for his fire breath attack, RUN LIKE HELL all the way back to the entrance. Repeat till he dies.

Blue Dragon - Hit him with arrows and spells. Bring plenty of ammo and MP regen items.

Dirty Colossus - This one is very easy for all characters. Use fire damage on your blade or fire based spells. His attacks can easily be blocked. Run into the torches to get rid of leeches attached to your body. Circle strafing helps to avoid his slow ranged attacks. Don't get too close when he starts swiping around him. Wait till he settles down a little. Usually a failed ranged attack is a good moment to move in and hit him.

Dragon God - Can't really call this a boss fight.

Flamelurker - One of the hardest bosses in the game, and I think this boss is probably a lot easier with melee characters. Use a magical weapon against him! Avoid too many direct hits on your shield and stay in medium range just out of reach of his area effect spell. Attack right after he jumps or does some other failed attack, try to flank him by circle strafing.



Fool's Idol - Kill the damn npc upstairs first. Use ranged attacks to take out false copies, and run up close to her to hit the real version of her with melee. (The real version uses different beam attacks)

King Allant (not to be confused with Old King Allant) - Same as any other common enemy. Circle Strafe and hit him after one of his attacks.

Leechmonger - Play aggressive against this boss. Use fire damage on your blade. Retreat into one of the tunnels if needed to heal up, but don't wait too long or he will heal back up. Watch out for his furious flailing attacks. Get ready to back away a bit till he settles down, then move back in. Circle strafing helps to confuse the boss since it is kind of slow.

Maneater - Kill the first man-eater quickly before you get a second one, and if you do, focus on the one thats nearly dead. Run back and forth across the bridge to seperate them for a while. Heal and recover behind the brasier in the center (it gives some cover). This is the hardest boss for melee characters. Much easier if you use fire spells or the gate exploit.

Maiden Astraea - She commits suicide, and her body guard can easily be defeated by waiting for a heavy attack and striking right afterwards. Don't abandon him, or he will heal up. Beware of his heavy area effect spell. Keep your shield up, but don't ever let him hit it (if you can) with his heavy weapon.

Old Hero - Equip the Thief's Ring and he is as blind as a bat. Just hit him with quick combos and then run off behind a pillar.

Old King Allant - Enter the room by hiding with the Thiefs Ring. When his back is turned, get a few free hits in. Stay in medium/far range (but not too far). Avoid direct hits and keep your shield up at all times. Your shield can block any of his beam attacks, but not his triple combo of sword attacks. Use your sideways dodge roll when he rushes to you. If you want to play it safe, only attack when he starts charging his special attack. Don't let him finish the spell, and hit him with a heavy attack every time. You can also try hitting him in the back after one of his failed rush attacks. Don't use healing unless he is walking casually towards you. Don't get close to him ever, or he will level-drain you. This boss is dangerous, but quite easy if you learn his patterns.

Old Monk - An easy boss for melee characters. Strike right after one of his attacks, and circle strafe the whole fight. If his magic missiles start appearing, don't attack and keep moving till they miss you and are gone. Then try and get more hits in. This boss is very vulnerable to strings of multiple attacks.

Penetrator - A lot easier if you free the npc to distract him. Basic circle straving works fine here. Attack after one of his combos.

Phalanx - Just take down his surrounding wall of blobs one by one. Keep moving around him with your shield raised. Eventually he'll end up with an exposed backside.

Red Dragon - Ranged attacks and spells. Best to hit from the first tower, when he comes flying towards you.

Storm King - Take out all of the flying stingrays and after about 10 the boss will come down. Seek shelter behind the ruins. Don't bother with your shield, it won't block any of his projectiles. The walls of the ruins will keep you save, but get rid of remaining stingrays as fast as possible.

Tower Knight - The easiest way to defeat him is with ranged attacks and spells. But melee is also possible. Immediately run past his left flank (so pass him on the right side) and up the stairs. Take out all the bowmen. To defeat him in melee, keep your shield up and avoid blocking anything but his beam attack (he'll only use the beam attack when you are far away anyway). Get into medium range and circle strafe to the right (because thats where his shield is, so you are less likely to get hit). Try and tempt him to do his shield bash, which will stun him for a while. Run up close and to his flank, and target his knee. Hit him a few times, and repeat this process. Eventually he'll fall to the ground, allowing you to hit his head.

Vanguard - Run past him, or use the secret tunnel to get behind him. First kill the stingrays with a bow. Rush in to hit Vanguard in the back, then run away and roll into the hole behind him to avoid his attack. Repeat till he dies (this could take a while, magic is faster).
|||Yeah, I "get" how you do melee on normal foes, my Royal has a spear + shield as her non-magic set that she loves. I just don't see how melee is useful at all on bosses, like the Tower Knight or the Flame Lurker (which is, incidentally, where I'm stuck right now. I've gotten the flamey bastard down to ~1/4 HP, but the autoaim glitched up on some scenery and he pounced on me, at which point you're basically SOL).|||With upgraded weapons and stats, melee dmg is far above anything ranged can give. But you really need to upgrade your weapons. the Dragon Longsword +1 in 2-2, can be upgraded up to +4 or +5 with stones you can find laying around near the lava. That'll be enough to murder everything on the first cycle. But shields aren't terribly useful in the long run, The only enemies they work well against can usually be dodged/killed fairly quickly anyway.